New hammer down rule?

[Wild Onion Willie]

Howdy Irshman and Ya'all,
There is no doubt there is going to be one hell of a lot discussed on this topic.
Here are a few more things to ponder:
As far as not moving the hammer to the safety notch after the gun is holstered, you are correct.
The rule states, "If used, the six-gun must be placed on the safety notch before the final holstering of the pistol before the "Shooting Commands" commence".
'Final holstering' , Humm. If the "Shooting Commands" have not been given, can I not draw the revolver from the holster and do what ever? The "Final Holstering" is when the revolver is in the holster and the "Shooters Commands" are started.
Until the Shooting Commands are give, you, as a shooter, are still in the Load And Make Ready Mode.
One other thing. With the Colt and it's clones. There is going to be a thin line between those that do and those that do not use the safety notch. May even be a battle over revolvers used in the sport. Special rules for Colts and their clones over those without the safety notch.
I can see the legal councils consern over 'Holy cow, there is a safety notch on the Colts?' 'To make sure we are not nailed for advising our shooters not to use a safety, we better do something about this'.
As stated elsewhere, our rules are set up to eliminate the possibility of the revolver firing with the hammer down, why, because the chamber directy under the hammer is on a spent round or empty chamer.
One other thing on the use of the safety notch. Every other firearm manual you read talks about safety and the dangers of useing the weapon without following their advise. One of the last safety tips they convey is, "When ready to fire, take the weapon off safety".
Can we not make this a practice for shooters with Colts and clones? If you are still worried about liability, have them put the hammer in the safety notch before exiting the line. There, they have been told. No law suit!
Yeah, I know. Back in your Tee Pee

Van / W.O.W.

[The Irishman]

WOW<

I agree that once the command has been given to load and make ready, that command stays in effect until you are given the command "Clear, Hammer Down and Holster"

But I agree with how the rule was written, it makes it very easy for the hand judges, if the shooter places the hammer in the safety position while the gun is in the holster, the shooter has violated the rule and should receive a verbal warning for the first offense, loss of shot on the second offense.

There is no reason Colt Clone shooters that feel the need to use that safety notch can't place the hammer in the proper position prior to holstering the gun, even if the make additional practice draws, you are not allowed to cock the hammer during these practice draws once you are loaded on the line.

I shoot a Colt Clone and I have no intention on using this first notch position, but I understand why it was done.

The Irishman

[Wild Onion Willie]

Howdy Irishman,
I do not know about the command 'LOAD AND MAKE READY, staying in effect until, CLEAR, HAMMER DOWN AND HOLSTER? What happened to, SHOOTERS ON THE LINE-SHOOTERS SET? I don't want to get into that. I will stay with the topic of the need for a rule addressing the safety Notch of the Colt revolver and its clones.

Quick Cal has a list of very good 'TEST' to follow for a rule in our sport. You can find them in the rule book, titeled, INTERPRETING RULES AND THE SPIRIT OF THE GAME. I have read through the test and have noted reasons why I feel this Safety Notch Rule should not be in our rules.

Just guessing on this, but I beleive the Legal Council noticed that there was a Safey Notch of the Colt and had a knee jerk, and reacted with, 'Holy crap! there is a Safety Notch of the Colt! We better find some way to employ this devise or we may be in for a law suit!' What ever, let me return to why I feel this rule is not needed.

TEST #1- Safety: "We must endeavor to find a balance between keeping our sport safe and having fun, and of course Safety is Always First, but there is no reason that this virture should ever be in conflict with having fun".

TEST #2-Necessity: "But if we don't need a rule, let's not have one to enforce". Moving down to the last paragraph, "There is a reason behind every safety, organizational or competition rule that we have, if a rule doesn't have a reason to exist, it simply should not exist; and common sense should prevail. We are commetted to keeping our rules simple, to the point and effective. That is a big reason why Cowboy Fast Draw is so fun". Very profound!

TEST #3-Sprit and Integrity of the Game: Here Cal hits on the values of The Cowboy Way, The Code Of The West and Fair Play, "But we strive not to cross the line too far and ruin the atmosphere that we all enjoy and the Spirit and Integrity of the Game we pursue and play".

TEST #4-Enforceability: "The fourth test of a rule is how difficult a rule may be to enforce by contest officials". Then moves on to, "We've also seen rules that require constant judgment and interpretation by contest officials. These types of rules can become very subjective, arbitrary and often cause controversy, arguments and folks just plain leaving the contest upset or feeling that they were somehow cheated. When this happens, it is a fundamental failure of the sport itself and should be avoided whenever possible". This one TEST may pack the most punch of the four?

Now a little more on why the rule is not necessary. Our sport has the safe gun handling process covered throughout the contest. All weapons are empty of live rounds until they are on the fireing line and ordered to load. This operation is aided by a hand judge. Once the round is complete, the weapon is unloaded, inspected by a hand judge, and holstered.
Further more, any time the weapon is loaded, the hammer and fireing pin are positioned over a empty chamber or fired round to secure the weapon can not be accidently fired.

The legal concil felt there was a potential liability in our rules that had prevented competitors from using a factory installed safety device. To this, I offer my rebuttal. As stated above on the safe handleing of our weapons thoughout the contest. Where and how does this 'Safety Notch' have a function? If the legal concil is worried about us not telling or useing the devise, I offer this, Advise the contestants that use a Colt or its clone, to place the hammer on the Safety Notch before leaving the fireing line and walking around the contest area. That is what the damned thing was designed for any way!

Okay, back in my Teepee. Van / W.O.W.

[The Irishman]

WOW

The load and make ready command stays in effect which allows the shooter to load between shots in any pattern they want, they can load 1 round and reload a round after each shot if you want, or you can load up to 5 rounds, the shooters are not given a command to load after each shot, so the load and make ready command stays in effect for each shooter until the unload and show clear command is given when your round is over.

I understand the reason the rule was put into effect, I don;t have an issue with the rule, I want to make sure that it is enforced equally and fairly, and hand judges know what to call when it happens.

The Irishman

[Wild Onion Willie]

Howdy Irishman,
Okay, now that you have spelled it out I understand where you were coming from on the LOAD AND MAKE READY, staying in effect.
As far as not having and issue with the Safety Notch Rule, everybody has their own choice. Isn't America great!
Me, I can see no real reason for having this rule. Its purpose is to prevent the weapon from discharging while moving about if the hammer should be struck or the weapon is dropped. As stated in my last post, our weapons are emply or have the hammer over an empty chamber or a spent round while participating in a contest.
Use this NOTCH while walking about and when you finish shooting a round before you leave the fireing line. I'm finished, I hope, with beating this rule to death. I just do not think we need it!

Van / W.O.W.

[Red Lead]

Thanks for the great discussion, guys!

Very edifying, even for us transfer bar shooters that will only need to remember it for H.J. & R.M. duties ...

[Dangerous Dave]

I agree we do not need this rule!
WE NEED TO KEEP IT SIMPLE.
NO MORE THAN 5 ROUNDS MAY BE LOADED IN THE GUN.
HAMMER DOWN ON FRAME ON EMPTY OR FIRED CHAMBER.

[Wild Onion Willie]

Howdy ya'all,
I hope you are happy Desperado? You started all this! .
I just can not see any justification for the rule or even its purpose as a valid safety issue. It is a rule that has no function , practical or valid use in our sport!
Does any one in our sport have a good reason why we should continue to have this rule
By the way DESPERADO, thanks for starting this. It really got my juices flowing!

Van / W.O.W.

[last will]

LOL, I jumped off it a while ago. I still don't see any difference one way or the other whether it's on the frame or not in times or slip cocking. I don't use the safety position whats-so-ever! It would become more of an issue if they were forcing people to use it...but they're not at this point in time.

Will

[Desperado]

WOW,
I too enjoy a good debate. I have been to a few contests this year and have noticed a few people utilizing the safety notch starting position. All have been "Notched" prior to holstering and I haven't seen any technical violations.

I'm a Ruger shooter but after this came up I played with a clone just to see if I could get some sort of advantage. Short answer is I couldn't. While there may be some slight differences, most that I have seen are only about 1/8 of an inch off of the frame when notched.

I recently read where a gun can be broken if the trigger is pulled to hard while notched.

We all always have our guns on an empty or fired chamber. Guns always holstered or pointed down range. Never out except at the dry fire area, firing line or cleaning area. Safety first.

So after all of this discussion I have come to this conclusion. Lawyers rule the world and the world is full of people that will exploit that fact. We can not tell someone not to use a factory installed safety device no matter how silly or ineffective it is.

To all of you notchers out there, go forth and notch away! Just do it prior to holstering your gun.